One subject we study in psychology is mental disorders. The concept of mental disorders is very complex. What is a disorder? What does it meant to be in sane? What types of disorders exist? What is the difference between schizophrenia and personality disorders? List goes on and on... We will be going into depth later... However, reading Chapter 5: Coldest Heart is going to make you question the concept of nature and nurture and the role is has on what we call anti-social personality disorder. What causes someone to become a cold heart? Are we born that way? In this chapter, think about all kinds of issues to talk about... Are some people born to kill? Was the fact that Leon was a fussy and difficult baby for mom, make it sound like he would turn out the way he did? Is it our environment and experiences that will determine our likely hood to kill or not kill? Should a 16 year old be up for death penalty? Is Leon a victim in any way? Who makes you more angry? Leon? Mom? Dad? Is there any hope? I am going to attach an article for you to read after this chapter... It serves the purpose for you to understand that not all anti- socials will kill, but to understand that many live among us and characteristics of an anti- social.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath
I would like you to respond about what you find most interesting about both the chapter and the article. I would like you to ask questions that your classmates may answer about your posts. You do NOT have to do a detail summary about the chapter. Do a summary about what you learned and what you found most interesting. Then ask a few questions that come to your mind about the chapter and article.
The most interesting thing to me about the article is how confident and full of herself this sociopath was. How she was so content admitting her dominance over others by instilling fear in them. While reading chapter 5 I didn't get the same vibes from Leon that I got from this woman. What I question most though, is what made Leon violent? He was raised in a family based household. There was lack of attention from his parents at times, but he wasn't abused. Why did Leon snap? Or was it just chance that his disorder got the best of him? Like the woman from the article said, she had thought about killing before.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the article 1 in 25 people are sociopaths, how do you know if you are that 1?
Do sociopaths truly not feel anything? They can obviously feel rage, Leon showed that.
What causes a person to become a sociopath? Nature versus nurture comes into play with this. While both play a part, I don't believe you are truly born that way, more so that it has to do with how you are raised.
I like how you questioned about whether a person could be that 1 in 1 in 25. I was thinking the same thing but came to the conclusion that people know by how they care for other people's lives and what goes on in them. Although there could be some defect when born, I agree that sociopaths are not born that way and that the raising of one has something to do with how he was nurtured from a young age and what the socialization is. I also agree that the lady from the article came off a lot more confident than Leon, but it was her own story she was telling and Leon's mostly came from Dr.Perry.
DeleteI also thought that the lady in the article and Leon acted differently. However you asked what made Leon snap and I don't think it was just one thing. The talked about how it was a butterfly effect and how things just kept adding up. It started out small, being neglected as a child and not being taught how to calm down and control himself. Then I'm sure as he got older more similar scenarios kept playing out and he didn't know the correct way to respond because he had never truly been taught. It's crazy to think about though.
DeleteI like how you brought up nature vs nurture. I believe that there is some defect when you born, the nature part. But having the nurture is what makes all the difference, the nurture can making you a high-functioning sociopath, the same way the lack of nurture can turn you into a violent sociopath.
DeleteI liked that you asked why Leon snapped as I was wondering the same thing. I believe that it was because the girls hurt his feelings by refusing to have sex with him and instead of him feeling sad or embarrassed for asking he went into a rage. Being that Leon feels no compassion or remorse he killed the girls for rejecting him.
DeleteI was also questioning what made Leon violent. What I have come to believe is that is a combination of both the way he was born and the unfortunate situation he was put in. I think he might have been born with the erg to be violent because his brother shows signs of it as well. For example, when the family was talking to Bruce D. Perry he was the most angry with the situation. Then the way he was raised became his trigger.
DeleteI think what made Leon violent is his total disregard of others feelings and whether or not he hurts them. Also he never really felt what it was liked to be loved when he was a child. He was probably told by his parents that he was loved but he never felt it as a baby when he was left alone in a crib for most of the day. I think he has blurred perception of what love really is, and sees it as nothing more than sex. When those girls rejected him, I think it made him feel unloved which probably made him angry and resulted in their deaths.
DeleteI wondered too why Leon got angry and what made him kill those two girls. I also agree with he acted that was cause that was how he was raised. He had no feelings and empathy because of that situation of been let alone as a baby.
DeleteI think that it is very possible that people are born without having the ability to feel or know the difference between right and wrong like Leon seems to. I think that this is almost parallel to psychologists debating wether or not addiction is a disease or self choosen.
DeleteI like how you questioned what made Leon snap. Dr. Perry did say that he was under the influence of alcohol at the time of the murders. Do you think that he would've still murdered the girls if he would've been sober? Maybe he just would've gotten angry and maybe even have gotten a little violent with them but maybe he wouldn't have gone all the way to killing them.
DeleteI was wondering what made Leon snap too. Sociopaths don't feel anything but what did he feel that made him kill those girls? I wonder if him being drunk had anything to do with it at all or if he drank to cover up what he had already planned on doing. I think his violence comes from how he was raised.
DeleteWhat struck me about both the article and the chapter was the definite coldness in both person's hearts. I was taken back a bit by the bluntness both the lady in the article and Leon had because to be honest I have never had any interest in reading or learning about sociopaths till now so I had no clue what it is like. I was very interested to learn that by being raised in two different environments and by being nurtured two different ways how different Frank and Leon had turned out. The explanation from pages 109 to 111 about how the two boys were cared for makes me think, if Leon had been raised the same as Frank, would he have turned out okay? What triggers a sociopathic mind? Going into the article I was taken hold by the confidence and cool words the woman used. Are all sociopaths cool, collected and confident like her? Are people able to have sociopath traits in certain situations without being a sociopath? Her whole article fascinated me and I want to know more about the control sociopaths have and what makes them really tick?
ReplyDeleteTaylor, I agree that I also thought a lot about the two completely different environments. It's hard to say but I do believe that had Leon been treated the way Frank was he would've turned out completely different. It's truly sad to think about for me. Although I have read a lot of articles on serial killers and sociopaths I would also like to still learn more. The more I read, the more it fascinates me and how their brain works and how different it is from the average person's way of thinking. Hopefully in class we'll get to study it more.
DeleteI like that you asked what triggers a sociopaths mind, being that both children were raised differently, I was wondering the same thing. I think that it has to do with extreme self-reliance at a young age. Both Leon and the girl from the article had to worry about unfit parenting. Leon’s mother abandoned him for long periods of time making him not trust anyone but himself; and the girl from the article had a violent and unreliable father whom she didn’t trust. I believe that because they were brought up without a warm and welcoming environment they became cold hearted sociopaths.
Deleteyeah! It's crazy to think how different the two kids turned out. They were both raised by the same parents yet the love they were given was different. I can't believe that what happened as a baby triggered him to do careless things. It's interesting learning about sociopathss and what triggers them.
DeleteI agree with that I think that this really shows how much environment effects the brain. Just with how different each boy turned out because they were raised in such different environments. Maybe Leon was always going to have sociopathic behaviors but maybe the way he was raised made those behaviors come out in worse ways.
DeleteI like how you mentioned the "coldness of their hearts". Those are exactly the words I was looking for, but didn't know how to say. And the questions you have are also things that I would like to have the answers to. It's hard to comprehend the ways of a sociopathic person, when their views are so far from your own.
DeleteBefore reading this book I always found sociopaths to be interesting but never once was I like I want to learn more. But I am the same way you are, after reading just the couple of stories that we have I want to learn more. Can't wait to go over everything in class and learn about different people and their "disturbing stories".
DeleteI was shocked by how heartless they were too. I can't imagine feeling that way. This chapter was intriguing to me as well and I wanted to know more about them too. What kind of stuff sets them off and what don't they care about at all and why?
DeleteThis chapter and article were actually quite disturbing to me. To me it's so foreign to not have any remorse or guilt for the things we do. Leon talks about how if he had done anything differently it would have been to get rid of the bloody boots, he didn't even mention not killing the girls at all. Also at the end he talks how he was confused as to why the parents were crying when he was the one being put into prison. Those two parts in this chapter are what stuck out to me most because its so chilling. It's hard for me to imagine not feeling any emotion at all. Everyone has a sense of what is right and wrong, but to not feel bad for doing wrong is crazy. The article was also very eye opening how 1 in every 25 people is considered a sociopath. Now it talks about how this doesn't mean you're a serial killer but it does mean you have similar qualities such as being drawn to violence and not understanding the feelings other people have. It's most sad that Leon ended up this way because of something his mom did when he was little and not giving him enough love and attention. Had he grown up with the same love and attention that Frank his brother had he more than likely would not have been in that situation. I have read several interviews of serial killers before and have had to do research projects on them and honestly the way in which they think blows my mind. It's insane how someone can be so manipulative and cold hearted.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. It's so hard to imagine not having any form of remorse, and that 1 out of every 25 people feel that way. Maybe that's why it's so hard to notice that there are so many sociopaths in the world, because we can't imagine how they feel or what they do in their everyday lives.
DeleteKylee I do agree that if Leon was raised as Frank was he would have been different and vice versa. I also like how you mentioned that everyone has a sense of right and wrong, but right and wrong are different with every new culture that is created. This horrible crime is wrong in our culture and most others, but in some this could be considered right. Another thing with Leon is that he started out in an environment that left him by himself allowing him time to create what he thought was right and then when he was to brought to the preschool his sense was encouraged. So from when he born thru this preschool his sense was heightened, so when he committed this horrible crime his right was our wrong.
DeleteI agree with how it seems impossible to not feel remorse or guilt after what he had done
DeleteI feel the same way about if Leon had been raised by Frank he would have been a lot better. those two parts stuck out to me a lot too and its just really sad. I am really confused on the fact that he doesn't feel bad and its so wierd to me too. what you said I agree with.
DeleteI was caught off guard by the fact that 1 in 25 people are sociopaths. It makes you wonder how many sociopaths you've encountered over the years, and you've just never realized it. In the article, it explained that not every sociopath is a serial killer, and I think that is a very important thing to emphasize on. It's unfortunate that Leon gave into the urges and committed such a horrific crime.
DeleteIt really is hard to imagine having no empathy or remorse for something so cruel like this. Growing up we are taught that hurting others even in the simplest ways is wrong but we also had the parental roles to guide us in those aspects unlike Leon.
DeleteI agree completely. It was so disturbing to me to read that if he would've done anything differently it would be getting rid of the bloody boots because that's how he was connected to the murder. I also thought it was crazy just how emotionless he was and how he couldn't understand other people's emotions as well. He couldn't understand why his parents were crying when he went to jail.
DeleteI also find it crazy how coldhearted some people can be. How can you murder two people and not feel the least bit upset about it? That is a super foreign concept to me and i look forward to learning more about it
DeleteI completely agree with you Kylee! After commuting such a crime it's hard to think that a person doesn't feel guilty about what he did. It makes me even more sick to my stomach that he tries to blame the girls for what happened to them. It's crazy to me that the way we are raised has a lot to do with how we react to different situations.
DeleteI also found it shocking that 1 in 25 people are sociopathic. Thats a lot of people that don't feel remorse and that are drawn to violence. It makes you wonder do they all grow up not getting the attention they need? I didn't realize how much the way you were raised played a role in your life and how you act.
DeleteI also found it shocking that 1 in 25 people are sociopathic. Thats a lot of people that don't feel remorse and that are drawn to violence. It makes you wonder do they all grow up not getting the attention they need? I didn't realize how much the way you were raised played a role in your life and how you act.
DeleteFrom the moment I started reading about Leon in Chapter 5 all I could think about was that he was the stereotypical TV sociopath and it turns out that it is not stereotypical. The first time it struck me was when Leon told Dr. Perry about his crime and it being "a no big deal," (103), and him not caring about what he did, and I'd personally hate to know what a "big deal," is for him. And finding out what Leon infancy was like (a huge reason for him becoming a violent sociopath) enraged me, because I kept thinking that who would leave their child home alone all day starting at 4 weeks old. While reading Leon also sounded like a 1 person mob, because he would commit a crime and magically there would be "no" witnesses and if decided to come forward, they would change their minds almost instantly. The difference between Frank and Leon was astonishing to me, how Leon was a total 180 from Frank, and while reading the article it also stated that if she had less love, she would have become violent, and I wonder if you are a sociopath how much is enough love?
ReplyDeleteFrank and Leon's differences astonished me too. What seems like little changes were huge enough to separate a murderer and an average adult
DeleteThe way Leon was cared for as a baby was really aggravating and unfathomable. I also liked how you compared his crime to the mob; I hadn't really noticed that before.
DeleteThis chapter was extremely chilling to read. The fact that Leon had no remorse for what he has done shocked me, like how could you not feel just a little bit guilty about murdering and violating two young girls. Also, the way the mother just left him alone for most of the day shocked me as well. Even after having her family help her raise Frank, I thought she would realize that newborns should not be left home alone.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Leon has no remorse for anything shocked me as well. Its strange that a person can feel that way about a very traumatic crime. You would think Maria would have reached out to a family member, or a family member would see that she is struggling. Its crazy to think that Frank turned out so normal, and that his little brother is a sociopath.
DeleteI also thought it was strange that maria didn't think she could get help in raising Leon, when she got help in raising Frank. It's sad to think that if she had tried getting help, then maybe Leon would have turned out a completely different person then what he did turn out to be. I didn't realize that sociopaths don't feel anything about the things they do.
DeleteAfter reading this chapter it was really hard to think that for someone it was so easy to just not feel that guilt. To know when how are where everything went down, but just not have remorse or emotion to it. I was heartbroken for the families that had the two little girls. But it also gets me emotional knowing that he was able to do something out of that nature. I don't think he did it on purpose to get revenge or anything. It's just very clear that his brain and his systems are wired not the same as the rest. Do you think he should receive the death penalty? No. I think that he needs to get some psychological help through more than one person. Maybe be taking some sort of medication. But like in the last chapter, it's not always about being on some sort of medication. I think he needs a different kinda of special attention. Find out what those things are that make him that way and try to help avoid those triggers or "re-wire" in a sense
ReplyDeleteI was heartbroken for the families of the girls as well. Especially at the end when they were crying and Leon said that he was the one going to jail and that they should not be upset. The fact that Leon could not even understand why the families of the girls he brutally murdered and raped would be upset shocked me.
DeleteThis chapter was very upsetting to me in many ways. The first was how Leon felt no remorse of murdering and raping both of those teen girls. The crime was so violent yet he felt absolutely nothing, that's sad more than anything. The other part of the chapter that upset me was how Maria raised Leon. Even though she had somewhat of a mental handicap, I don't know how a mother could just leave her baby alone in an apartment all day. I hate to let a baby cry for a minute or two, let alone a whole day. The saddest part is that leaving Leon alone as a baby has essentially left him alone for his entire life, and that's no way to live.
ReplyDeleteIt made so upset to see the way Maria raised Leon. I think she was not intelligent enough to understand that she was neglecting Leon. It makes me wonder if Leon still would have murdered the girls if Maria raised him differently and did not neglect him as a young child.
DeleteI feel the same way, this chapter overall made me pretty upset and was hard for me to comprehend how someone can perform such awful acts and not feel any guilt or taking responsibilty for it. I also agree with your comment about how she raised him, it upset me that his mother was somewhat handicapped and yet she had no help with her son when she clearly needed some help or advice. I dont think they put the childs safety first in this situation and because of that Leon will be paying the price for the rest of his life.
DeleteI absolutley agree with you on the whole baby thing. No baby should be abandonded no matter how stupid the parent is. In my opinion, I believe someone like Maria shouldn't be a parent because she has no clue how to manage her own life. Sure, her other son turned out well, but that was only because she had a lot of help.
DeleteWhile this chapter was very disturbing and gruesome it was also (in my opinion) the most interesting one that we have read. Starting at the beginning, it blows my mind that Leon's mom didn't realize that leaving an infant home alone for days at a time can be harmful to the baby. Not only in a mental and emotional state but as well as a physical state. While this book isn't about body image and healthy eating, I would kinda have also liked to know what kind of health issues he had as a young child.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was also very interesting in the way that it compared and mentioned a lot of different disorders. Even though I have never read/ heard much about sociopaths I did have some general background knowledge on Asperger's and autism and the comparisons totally helped me to understand a little more about Leon's situation.
The part of the chapter I had the hardest getting through was the details of the murder and Leon's interview. For someone to commit such a major crime and not feel bad after words is so horrible. And at first I didn't understand that at all but after Dr. Perry went into explaining it all so well I get it. The way Perry mentioned the alcohol and brought that into the whole situation was really cool. Saying that Leon wouldn't have committed this crime if he had not been under the influence is really sad.
I've really enjoyed this book so far and I like that all the stories seem to start with an innocent act early on in the subjects life. Children need a good start ad if they don't get one things will spiral out from there
I totally agree about what you said about this chapter being the most interesting chapter. I never even thought he could had possibly have health issues as a young child that could affect him as an adult. I also totally agree about what you said about Maria just leaving an infant. What was she thinking?
DeleteI also agree that this chapter is the most interesting. There were so many components that made it this way. One thing that you brought up that I hadn't given much thought about was Leon's mother. It says that she dropped out of school, but that does not make a person ignorant to others needs. That also doesn't mean that she would not be smart enough to know that you can't leave a baby alone all day. So that makes question, does she have a disorder of her own?
DeleteIm also agreeing with you that this chapter was the most interesting out of all of the chapters we have read in this book. I like that you said that it blows your mind that Leon's mother didn't even think twice about leaving him at home all day for several days as an infant. How didn't she know that it would cause harm to him? It has definitely affected him as he grows older.
DeleteI also think it's crazy how his mother didn't think that leaving her baby alone all day was not going to harm him, and how it even helped him because he stopped crying. Something had to be wrong with her too..
DeleteIn my opinion this chapter and article are the most intriguing ones we’ve read so far. I find it interesting that both Leon and the girl from the article don’t feel remorse for their actions. I also think it’s interesting that they view people as objects that they can manipulate and that when they get angry at people they turn to violence. I was disturbed by the fact that Leon felt no remorse for brutally killing the teenage girls but I also felt sorry for him because I believe that he could’ve learned how to control his anger better and had a successful life like the girl from the article.
ReplyDeleteI became angry when I found out that Maria left her newborn son in a crib all day long. How could she not know that her actions were abusive? Why didn’t Alan find someone to help take care of his son when she was unable to do it by herself? And finally would Leon have turned out normal if he was taken along on the walks and properly taken care of?
I think it’s sad that because Leon’s needs weren’t met as an infant his entire life after was messed up. His mom started a bad snow ball effect that Leon, although he had the opportunities, could never stop. If Leon would have been raised differently he probably could have lived a normal and happy life.
I agree with you completely. I also felt bad fro Leon because he had no control of his mother leaving him alone all day and in turn it affected his whole life. I wasn't really angry with his mother but sad because his father also did nothing to help getting him the affection he need that his mother couldn't provide.
DeleteI agree that the negligence that Leon received from his family did affect the way he grew up and the decisions he made. If he would've received the right attention and love from his mother and father, he probably would've grown up differently. I also can't help but ask why no one tried harder to get him help before he did snap.
DeleteI was wondering the same thing. Why didn't Alan find someone to help? He should've known that his wife took Frank to a relation's house. How could he not assume she would get overwhelmed with their second child? I thought the article was interesting, too. It's a different experience when you are reading from the point of view of a sociopath. The way they talk about people as objects and have a blatant disregard for the feelings of others is something I was not use to.
DeleteThis was a powerful chapter for me to read. It very strange to think that a person can commit awful crimes and feel not a one bit of remorse. I felt sorry for him when he was just an infant and was left alone in his crib. From reading the first few pages about Leon, I would never had guess that he could be autistic. Why didn't teachers, or counselors see the signs that he was autistic earlier? Showing no emotion to something is a hard thing to do, and the fact Leon does that on a daily basis is shocking. Why would Maria not tell anyone that she was having a hard time with Leon? Maybe if she could've told someone her problems, Leon's life would have been different.
ReplyDeleteIt is very strange that a person can commit violent crimes without feeling bad for what they did. I believe that because Leon was neglected as a child he never developed remorse or connections to other people and instead became incredibly selfish. It made me sad to hear Leon speak about murdering and raping the girls in such a casual way, as though he did nothing wrong.
DeleteI agree with you completely. I dont know how a person can not feel bad about causing that much harm to a person. I also feel bad for him and how he was raised. Being left alone in the dark apartment in his crib all day alone, it had to have been part of the reason he is acting the way he is now that he is a little older.
DeleteI agree with you saying that it's strange of teachers and counselors not to notice absolutely any signs or even other people who spent a lot of time around him.
DeleteThis chapter was the most shocking to me so far. I was greatly disturbed by Leon, especially by his acts of necrophilia. I think part of the reason for the killing was that Leon felt rejected by the girls and wanted power over them. I have always questioned what makes a person have a complete lack of remorse for others. It is a question of nature versus nurture. In Leon’s case it seems to be nurture that caused him to become a sociopath. It shocked me when Leon told the story of murdering the girls. He did it in such a clm and casual way. He did not care or regret that he harmed other people, he only cared that he got caught. It was sad for me to read about Leon getting neglected as a child, especially because his mother was not intelligent enough to understand that she was neglecting him. If Maria had simply gotten help raising Leon and learned to cope with his crying in a better way, would those girls still be dead?
ReplyDeleteI think that the most interesting thing in this chapter is how his mother never really says how it was wrong of her to leave her new born baby in their apartment by itself all day long. I feel like she has some kind of mental disability too. It makes me mad just thinking about someone doing that. I feel like he would've been able to live a normal life and turn out just like her other son if she hasn't done that. Was his father okay with her doing that, did he even know? I honesty would blame her for bad things happening in his life, especially because he started getting in trouble when he was really, really young and they couldn't do anything about it? It's really sad to read about this and start blaming him at the beginning and later on finding out what happened to think when he was a baby. I would think that his mother had some kind of a problem like Virginia, and that she wasn't able to take care of her baby on her own. I wish they explained more about her past.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very powerful to me because most of us are around that age of 16 and it's strange for me to think about someone a little younger than me taking 2 very young girls lives. Could Leon's mom prevented this is she didn't leave him alone for a few times at a time? I feel like yes he probably does have a few mental disorder but no mental disorder should be enough to get you out of killing 2 girls. Its crazy for me to think that terrible things like this actually exists. I found the way that Dr. Perry was very interesting and the way he brought up alcohol and the factors it could of played was also very cool.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, knowing that Leon is close to our age is really insane. To think that someone so young would be able to commit a crime so horrible is downright scary. Also the fact that he feels nothing after he commits the crime is crazy to. I would have thought that he would have altleast felt a little, of anything, after doing that.
DeleteI was also shocked about the age factor in this trial. Being 16 means that you have a well understanding of how the world works and the difference between right and wrong. It shocks me knowing that he doesn't feel a lot o guilt after what he did to those girls. I was impressed with how Dr. Perry tied the alcohol factor is as well. Very interesting chapter!
DeleteYou make a really good point bringing his age up. It's insane to think that someone at the same developmental stage as many of us could do something so heinous.
DeleteI agree with the age thing as well. Its so eye opening and crazy that someone our age has the power to do that to other people. I also thought it was a really cool point about the alcohol and how that could affect a person in those acts. There was many ways to look at this chapter and overall it was very eye opening to me how much power someone can have and how something small in your childhood can affect your future so much and the things you do.
DeleteI agree with the part about it being crazy that these things happen. I mean yes we hear about them and we all say how sick can you be but then we all just go on with our day and nothing else is said about it again.
Deleteyeah the age thing blows me away too, how someone so young coul really do such terribe things is crazy. and also the no feeling thing bothered me as well
Deletethis story was probably one of my favorites because it was really fascinating. It's crazy to think how one little thing like being left alone when your baby can impact your life so much. I don't understand why his mom would do that and how she would not know that she was neglecting him. And later on in his life when she realized something was wrong and try to get help for him? What about all the teachers and stuff wouldn't they realize something was wrong and try to help him as well? I don't understand how he doesn't have any feelings. How does he not feel bad for the families of the girls. He doesn't care about them he only cares that he doesn't get in trouble. And it's weird how we can just keep building off of that. when he talks to Dr. Perry I find it really sad that he doesn't show any concern and just plays it cool. it's crazy how many connections are brain has to make and how just one little thing can make such a big impact. this chapter really made me think about how complex our brain is.
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter crazy too, like how being left alone as a baby could turn you into someone who murders two girls and doesn't feel any remorse about it. I feel that his parents and teachers just assumed that he would grow out of his behaviors with time. Also by putting him in those classes and groups that they whee helping him not making matters worse.
DeleteBeing left a lone for just a little while at such a young age is so crucial because thats the time when the child should be learning to be settled down be its mother. but instead Leon was left alone. Just that little while created enough developmental impacts that he would never fully understand right from wrong, very complex.
DeleteI found it crazy too, how could a mother leave there child at home alone while she goes out and how that caused him to have no feeling towards people. She would of never guessed by neglecting him he would of turned into a murderer.
DeleteYes! He does not care at all, he does not egret it. There is definitely something wrong with Leon's brain and the way he was brought up. You always have to wonder how different he could have been.
DeleteI think teachers and other people ahve tried helping, but he just wasn't grasping the concept of what a normal life should be like. For instance, in the story he went to a program for unruly children; it was to help him improve how to interact well with others and all that jolly good stuff, but he was just influenced by all the bad behavior around him, it only got worse on his part. And as far as him being left alone, I was so unimpressed. As I said before Maria doesn't deserve her kids because she can't take care of them correctly and the only reason why her first son turned out normal is because she had a lot of help. She is an idiot and can't evencare for her own self, she shouldn't have kids on top of that yet.
DeleteThis chapter and article are probably the most intriguing, but chilling to me. Because they are both about sociopaths, but they they each act in their own way. Leon isn't as confident as the women in the article. They both study people to find way's to manipulate others. But what makes them each act in different ways? Why is Leon violent but the women is not? How can they not feel any regret or remorse but feel so much anger and hate? How do you know who the 1 in 25 people is the sociopath? This chapter poses many questions about the brain that may or may not be answered but I think that's why it's important for us to read. It shows us how different everyone really is from one another.
ReplyDeleteI think that do not feel any remorse because the hate and anger has essentially taken over and has clouded their judgement/thought process. In their minds what they have done is seen as being just and right. I feel Leon is violent because that is just in his nature and because of his upbringing. Some tend to have the stronger primitive instinct which cause him to be more violent.
DeleteYour question of how they know that 1 in 25 people are a sociopath is a really good one! Even if a person realizes they are a sociopath why would they admit to it. I have no idea how they came up with the number, but that is a very good question. I feel that Leon was more violent than the woman because he is a man, this thought is not unfounded because even in the chapter it is stated that men are more likely to commit acts of violence.
DeleteThis chapter and article was both astonishing and intriguing to me. Personally, I feel bad when I bump into someone in a hallway. But for the person in the article or for Leon they feel so much rage that they would want to feel someone's life disappearing in their own hands. Then after they feel powerful and satisfied, and that almost makes me feel sick.
ReplyDeleteI have watched criminal shows and documentaries on people who commit these kind of crimes. Although they are interesting, it always shocks me. Like leon, they show no remorse for what the have done. They know what they have done was wrong, but to them people are just objects of amusement. Then the worst part is that through it all they feel accomplished. And that what they have done has somehow bettered everyone in some way.
The reason that I found this intriguing is because the way these people act and what they feel is so foreign to me, that it became interesting. They are so confident, manipulative, and power hungry. So it makes me wonder, what makes a person a psychopath? As I have learned from this book and the article is that the situation you are born into has a huge effect on who you grow up to be. But that doesn’t mean that everyone who doesn't get enough attention as a child or has an abusive father grows up to be a killer. So does that mean that certain people are born with the instinct to kill? Or does it mean that they way a person is brought up determines how violent they become? I’m still indecisive, but I think it's a combination of both.
I liked your point about feeling bad about bumping into someone in the hallway, yet people like Leon or the girl in the article feel no remorse for killing or wanting to kill people. That is extremely hard for me to understand too.
DeleteIn regard to your question, I don't think anyone is born with the instinct to kill. I think the things that occur in someone's life and all the bad things that build up on top of stress and other emotions- not to mention if someone does have a mental disorder- can cause people to snap. I think all people are born to love and feel love and turn out a way in which society considers "normal", a lot of it does depend on the environment in which you grow up in and the way you're nurtured.
This chapter disturbed me immensely, to see someone who just doesn't seem to care boggles my mind. When I first read the chapter name I was instantly intrigued. What does Dr.Perry mean by ‘The Coldest Heart,’ someone who is incapable of feelings? Come to find out that I wasn’t to far off the mark with my initial thought. Before reading this chapter I thought that everyone felt remorse, be them sociopaths or not. Now I realize that isn’t true at all, not everyone has the emotional ability to feel. sociopaths emotionally can’t feel remorse, they seem emotionally detached from reality. I can’t believe that at just sixteen Leon caught a capital offense charge. It’s insane to think that someone so close to my age could be that dangerous, and uncaring. Why is it possible for him to become so enraged after rejection that he murders and rapes two innocent teenage girls? How is it possible for him to just fly into a blind fury with seemingly no explanation? How is it possible to snap so fast? The fact that as an infant Leon was left alone while his mother went for walks with his older brother and his dad worked has a huge impact on the mentality of him. But is it really fair to place all of the blame on Leon for his actions. Yes, I fully understand that it was his conscious decision to do what he did but could we also place a bit of the blame on his mother and father. He has an older brother, Frank, who is the exact opposite of Leon. Being that when he was an infant Marie, their mother, was living in a town where she had close family support in raising Frank. This leads me to raise the question on why was she unable to find some kind of support to help in the raising of Leon.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article it’s crazy just what goes on in the mind of a sociopath. Even just reading that, I felt that it had no real emotion behind it. Recalling the events in her life in an almost robotic way. I get this distant and standoffish vibe from the article. To see how she really thinks about people and how she holds that much power over others in scary. The fact that she doesn't fear death, and even laughs after almost drowning is what gets to me the most. True, everyone has to die, most people are at least scared of when or how it will happen. Pushing people away, and using the knowledge you gain from them against them is harsh. To edge people on and not feel anything about it shocks me.
As I read chapter five I couldn't help but catch myself in awe every time I turned the page. Being "abandoned" for just enough time to run errands can obviously make a huge impact. Leon was 16 at the time he killed, raped, and then beat those two teenage girls. Old enough that he should've known that what he was doing was wrong. Then Dr. Perry brings up that Leon was intoxicated. I believe that may have had an impact on the way and state that Leon was thinking in. But that is still no excuse for what he did. Why did he do it? It also fascinated me that every time he told the story, he made himself look a little more innocent. Does he believe that he did no wrong and the girls "deserved it"? The family members had no history of any violence or disorders. Frank, Leon's brother, became a successful man with a family. Was that because he received more attention and care as a child? I find it amazing that our brain needs those crucial years of development, timing is everything.
ReplyDeleteYou're right about how Leon said he was intoxicated and wasn't thinking totally clearly, when I read that though I thought of how a large majority of people have had alcohol though and have never murdered, raped, or beaten someone. I think he's just looking for some thing else to blame his actions on in this case.
DeleteI really like how this chapter showed that other things can happen to you if not given the right care, it connected the chapter with Virginia and Laura. It is so unfortunate that Leon's childhood was so different than his bother's. His mom clearly needed more help raising a newborn, but her husband also needed to make sure they could make it by, by taking that job offer. It pains me to know this actually happened with someone my age, he looked at t like he did not do anything wrong, he does not even regret it, he regrets leaving evidence. I also feel like the parents do not realize that they are probably the underlying cause for the deaths of two young girls. The early stages of life are by far the most important, and this chapter definitely shows that. It does not take much to take your kid with you on a walk.
ReplyDeleteI still cannot fully wrap my head around being able to just leave your infant alone. It is sad to see how this affected him as he grew. I wonder if his mother could have seen the future if she would have tried harder. Reached out to someone for help. I also understand the father need to support the family but could he not help out a little more? Did he not realize what was happening? I feel if just a few sacrifices were made the future could have turned out much differently
DeleteI also liked how the two chapters tied into one another in showing two kinds of early childhood neglect and the different outcomes. Its very amazing to hear stories of how children our age can be capable of such a harsh crime. Its also amazing how the two siblings were treated so differently as infants and had such different lives as they grew older.
DeleteIt saddens me to think a mother could have no problem leaving her baby at home alone. She didn't even realize what an effect it would have on her infant son for the rest of his life. It all boils down to having proper love and affection from the very start. It is a necessity for everyone in order for the brain to properly grow.
DeleteI like how you talk about how Frank and Leon being raised differently effected them. Having a brother I know how true this is. My brother and I were raised, I would say, very differently. Both ways had their ups and downs but I think we both turned out all right. It is crazy to me how different we were raised and still ended out okay but in a more extreme case Leon was not okay.
DeleteAfter reading chapter 5, i had many questions. How could a 16 year old boy kill 2 girls and rape them? Was he born a killer or was the way he raised part of the reason that made him act like that? i am 16 years old and could never imagine any of the boys in my grade killing anyone. I think he deserves to be punished for his actions for sure, but in a way i do feel bad for him. He wasn't raised like most people are raised and as he got older, i feel like he really didn't have any feelings or emotions towards anything or anyone. I also find it weird how his brother was raised normally and he wasn't. He was just left in the dark apartment as a baby crying. Why did they leave him in there and take his older brother out to the park? I wonder what made them do that to their own child. I wouldn't entirely blame Leon's actions on the parents, but they deserve partial blame for raising him that way and not getting the help he needed soon enough. He did what he had to do to those girls to get what he wanted, even if it was to the extreme of killing them first. The article really interested me too and how the sociopath was so confident and full of herself. I dont know how people can find such a thrill manipulating people in these types of ways.
ReplyDeleteI found the differences between Leon and the girl in the article interesting. It was surprising to me that the girl in the article cared about excelling in school and such and making herself look good to others, because Leon didn't care about any of that. He didn't try in school and didn't try to please his parents. The chapter had me torn between whether or not I truly blame Leon for what he did. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that he had no regard for other human beings and their feelings. I can't imagine not feeling empathy or even sympathy for others. It said he felt no guilt but I feel like the reason he keeps changing the story to make it sound less terrible is to make himself feel less guilty about what he did. I also find it interesting that Dr. Perry thinks that the alcohol affected Leon's decision. Alcohol does affect decision making but I think killing someone is a little extreme? Then again he is a sociopath. The girl in the article said she lived a normal life for the most part, it's just scary to think that at any moment someone could just snap. It is also hard for me to understand how one person can grow up in a terrible home with no attention- or the wrong kinds of attention- and turn out some what normal, yet others receive little attention and grow up to become sociopaths or have other disorders??
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you mentioned him making the story sound a little better each time to lessen his own guilt interests me. I didn't think about it that way, but it really does makes sense. And the difference between Leon and the woman in the article is peculiar too. They both live the life of a sociopath but in such different aspects. That just shows, having a mental illness cannot label the person you are. We are all individuals no matter what.
DeleteWhat's interested me most about this chapter is how this boy and the girl from chapter 4 both lacked the love and compassion needed in an infants stages of development. And what struck me most was the fact that by one different action (not being held) the boy had a completely different outcome. I also found is really annoying that Maria would just leave him at home when she didn't want to deal with him. She grew up in a loving and caring home. All she did was move. What about moving all of a sudden meant she could just leave her baby at home? I get that she would get help from her family, but did her family ever teach her how she should do in case she has another child. That is some major irresponsibility on her behalf.
ReplyDeleteThe article interested me because it put more insight on manipulation in sociopaths. They can and will easily manipulate people because they felt like it, and felt no remorse which is weird and at the same time, interesting to read from the perspective of someone who isn't a sociopath.
I loved the comparison the author used between the children Laura in chapter 4 and Leon in chapter 5 as well. It helped me better understand the outcomes of what lack of compassion as an infant can do to the brain in the future.
DeleteChapter five was so interesting and thought provoking... The entire time I read chapter five I thought, "man, how could this Leon guy grow up bullying, stealing, lying, and eventually committing murder just by being left alone at times during infancy?" As I read I started to really understand. All the mumbo jumbo Dr. perry discussed referring to the brain: cognitive, psychological, emotional, physical, and mental growth during infancy, I realized that, when Leon's mother left him alone when he was too much to handle, Leon had no possible way of growing. He literally had no interaction with anything, and therefore couldn't learn. The only thing he did learn was that he was the only person he could rely on. The woman who wrote the article seemed to rely on herself as well. She was a narcissist at heart, and manipulated and seduced people to the point where she felt she had control of them. The only thing I still do not get, is how they can be so desensitized to violence. The author of the article dreamed of strangling her own father, and we all know what Leon did, so my questions are, how can they do such things without feeling anything? Can the butterfly effect really have that huge of an impact on the human brain? And is it possible to reverse the effects of childhood neglect, after they become adults?
ReplyDeleteLike you said,is it possible to reverse the effects of childhood neglect? I was also wondering that there are many children that are neglected at a young age, as sad as that is but I don't think they all grow up to be rapist and murders. Its hard to understand how abuse like that could make someone think these actions are okay and not have any remorse or regret for them.
DeleteHoly. When you asked yourself about how his life was effected just by being left alone, really interested me. That is just so crazy to me as well. I also like how Kyra points out the fact that does it make it okay that because you were abused and such that these things are just okay.
DeleteChapter 5 was shocking how could a 16 year old boy kill two girls. Was he born aggressive to kill or was it some other reason? I'm not sure if I blame it all on Leon for doing this. He was abandoned as a baby so, he didn't get the attention he needed to learn social skill and how to interact. Its sad one child got the attention needed and the other didn't and how much that can play a role of how they act and grow up. It surprised me how when he was telling the story of what happened he made himself feel like it wasn't that bad. I cant imagine not having feelings and empathy towards what others are feeling. It is scary and hard to imagine how someone could do this and have little feeling towards what they did.
ReplyDeleteI think the parenting situation definitely played a role in Leon's situation I do not think he was born like that, especially if he mom was not doing drugs or anything during pregnancy. The parents said they did all the could, but him in all these classes but I think he needed more work at home.
DeleteTaylor Nein
DeleteI don't think Leon was born with the genetics of a sociopath. I think it was because of his mom and dad giving him little attention as a child.
Leon's situation was different then any other kids. I agree that his parents ay have made mistakes while raising him but I also know not every kid with family issues grows up to kill. I think part of that was in Leon all along and the lack of nurturing brought it out of him.
DeleteThe thing that I found most interesting as how there wasn't a definite reason to Leons actions. He just up and murdered two innocent girls without feeling any remorse. A gruesome part was when he was asked what he would've done differently he responded with "I don't know, maybe throw away those boots." There were so many questions asked and Dr. P tried his best to find the answers. It was interesting how, like in Laura story, there was some motherly neglect as a child which led to a negative upbringing but in Leons case it was more severe because he was left alone to cry by himself and became less emotional.
ReplyDeleteIt's crazy to think how every 1 in 25 people are a sociopath and can't communicate emotions like 'normal' people can. The artical was interesting and gave more details about what sociopaths are like and what goes through their minds. Do these people have any idea that they could be a sociopath? Can they recognize other sociopaths as being just like them? It's amazing how different everyone's brains work and how childhood trauma or incidents can affect so much.
Good questions Sierra. I honestly believe that sociopaths have no idea they are one because of the narcissism... They feel they are above the rest and can manipulate and almost control others. They don't feel that anything is wrong wth them, but maybe everyone else is just weaker willed? I also agree that the article gave an amazing perspective of what goes on in a sociopaths mind and it was crazy. I also don't think they can spot other sociopaths, since I don't believe they can see themselves as one in the first place.
DeleteI think you pose some very thought provoking questions of your own. I agree with Dawson's theories that they may just think they are in some way better than everyone. Now I am also wondering what happens when two sociopaths come across one another. Or if they ever recognise that they are different.
DeleteChapter 5 was definitely a very interesting, thought-provoking chapter. Being around the same age as Leon when he killed those girls made it harder to read. Right now, many of us are concerned about finding the right college or making it through high school, and Leon murdered two girls and is waiting to find out if he is going to spend the rest of his life in prison or if he will die. He wasn't born that way, so there is always a way he could've not ended up like that. Although his mother was stressed, I still don't understand how someone could just abandon their crying baby. Why did the dad not find her help? His coldness in regard to his crime was shocking, and the bloody boots just created a dark image in my mind. It's sad to think that he could've been a healthy boy had he been giving the proper love and care as a child.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading the article, because it gave you an example of how Leon or any other sociopath view people and situations. The fact that they view people as objects or robots is just sad. They don't feel emotions, so they don't understand what it's like for the people that do. Their blatant disregard for the feelings of others is something I can't wrap my head around. Do they know right and wrong, but don't have the conscience to follow it? I can't imagine not feeling empathy, or remorse. They are drawn to the thought of violence and manipulation, and forming relationships is virtually impossible. It makes sense why the writer of the article was such a good lawyer.
No one truly knows what it's like to be a sociopath, unless they are one. How can a person just not have feelings? What would it be like to not have remorse? What would the world be like if everyone was a sociopath?
I also did not understand how Leon's mother could just abandon her child as he cried. Even though her family had helped in raising Frank, she had to have comforted him at some point while he was crying? And isn't it just a motherly instinct to comfort your child? I believe she didn't have bad intentions while leaving Leon, but had just simply not known the proper steps to take.
DeleteI think the dad, instead of finding help for the mom, could have stepped up and cared for his own child a bit more? Even though he worked a lot, if he cared about his children he would have helped raise them. I still don't get why the mother just left her own son crying in the dark apartment, but whatever I guess she was just THAT slow. Your questions are interesting. If everyone was a sociopath, then everything, everywhere would be corrupt. Maybe lots more murder and heinous crimes would occur around the world. When you asked about not feeling remorse, and what it's like. I feel that they know they did something wrong, but just haven't learned how to feel about it, so they don't. It all has to do with how you were raised, and I don't understand it completely, but I think you would feel cold. You know what you've done and you know that people are responding disgusted towards you, but you don't know how to respond back, so you just turn a cold shoulder and let what happens happen.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading both the chapter and the article I was immediately disturbed and somewhat confused. I don't understand how somebody can be so cold hearted like both killers but have different emotions on the subjects. It's extremely interesting to me that someone like Leon can show remorse but the lady from the article didn't. What makes the two different situations so different?
ReplyDeleteI had the exact same thoughts on the chapter and article. I think the differences in mental stability is what caused the differences in reaction to the crimes.
DeleteTaylor Nein
DeleteThe thing you have to consider is that Leon was also drinking when he killed the two girls. So this caused him to not be able to react the way he normally would and maybe stop himself. I think that if Leon wouldn't have been drinking he still might have harmed them but not killed them.
Chapter 5 was a very interesting chapter to me. The first thing that came to mind while i was reading this, was how could a boy my age have the power and the mind set to kill? It was both scary and desturbing to me. My mind could never make the connection to understand how someone could ever kill anyone, and yet be okay with it after they have done so. However, I do not fully blame it all on Leon. He had a rough childhood and some memories that was definitely scar someone and affect them later in their life, like being abandoned and without care and effection. This story is sad, and makes me feel bad that Leon had to go through that and who knows, im curious to know if he would have had a normal childhood and got the correct care and love he needed, if he would have turned out differently and not have needed to kill?
ReplyDeleteJust from what i have learned from reading this book, if Leon had the proper care while he was an infant his life would have turned out differently. Maybe he still would have killed those girls but he would not be as violent and he would feel remorse. It is so sad that his mother just left him alone as a infant with no one to comfort and care for the helpless child
DeleteI agree with you Michaela. It is crazy to think that someone the same age as us is capable of such horrible crimes.I also wonder that if he was brought up differently, he may have acted differently. His brother turned out to be successful and happy. Could things have been the same for Leon?
DeleteI agree. I believe that had things turned out differently for Leon regarding his care, things would have been different and he would not have killed those girls. But because his mother unintentionally left Leon without care and attention, he had grown believing neither existed entirely.
DeleteI definitely do agree that things would have been different if he was given the right care by his mother. It also shocks me that Leon at that age was even thinking about killing anyone period. What teen thinks about killing? It blows my mind as well. It just goes to show that when not brought up the right way a lot of things can go wrong at many different extremes.
DeleteWhen the chapter first began I was disgusted by the way Leon seemed to not care at all saying the crime was “no big deal really”, which I later learned was more than likely true. One of the most disturbing things about Leon I thought was when Dr. Perry asked him what he would have differently on pg.106 and Leon answered with “throw away the boots”, which he then explained was the only reason the police were able to connect him to the crime. I thought this showed his true lack of remorse, it was actually frightening to hear him say this and know others have a similar mindset, like the article said one in 25 people are sociopaths. This chapter also showed that nurture plays a large role in development, having one son like Frank who was loved and had attention from not only his mother but multiple relatives grow up and be ‘normal’ compared to his brother who had minimal attention and at times left to cry alone. Hearing how a mother could leave her newborn baby at home alone for crying broke my heart, you would think if she was able to raise a child like Frank with help by her second baby she would be able to care for him more than she did. When hearing about Leon’s childhood it made me wonder if he had any contact with his dad though because it sounded like he wasn’t around, I think the parents share the blame because his dad should have to care for his children as well.
ReplyDeleteI agree, that Leon being raised with little attention and being left alone does play a role in his behavior. I also felt angry at the parents, how could you just leave your child alone, not care for it.
DeleteI was disturbed and dumb founded right off the bat after reading the chapter and article. I do not understand how people can have different sets of emotions when they commit such heinous crimes. I cannot understand how someone could show zero remorse for their crime. I feel that deep down that there should at least be a miniscule amount of remorse. I want to know how the two different situations could cayse certain emotions to appear.
ReplyDeleteThis by far was the most impactful chapter and one I learned a lot from. Without the explanations I would not have been able to understand Leon's motivations for how he thought and the things he did. It seems that whenever Leon was at a crossroads in life he would endup going down the wrong path, either by his own decisions or other people's actions. To learn that Leon only saw other people as tools and couldn't even understand relationships was difficult for me to understand. How can a person not understand the value of others lives? How can someone become so cold?
ReplyDeleteThe contrast show between the two brothers was so surreal to see. Where one was in general successful the other wasn't at all. The two had become polar opposites due to there contrasting starts in life. The part of this chapter that stood out to me the most was when Leon asks Dr. Perry why the parents of the young girls he murdered are crying seeing as they aren't going to jail. This part shows that Leon truely has no concept of either emotion or love. He thinks they are made up to more easily manipulate people. When the girls beg him to stop attacking him, he is insulted and thinks they are trying to trick him. For him to have gotten to the point where he thinks that way baffles me. I learned from this chapter not only about psychopathic and sociopathic behavior, but also more about autism than I had ever understood. Before now I had never heard of the experiment described in the chapter, where the pencil and candy where switched. Though I am still confused about the finer details of autism I think I know a lot more than I did before. I also learned about the damage that can be caused by grouping at risk toddlers together. It was something that I had never considered before now, but makes a great deal of sense.
What is intreguing to me is how similar Leon and this person were, but yet so different. They both have that emotionless, careless, manipulating vibe going on but they are completely different. Leon has been a troublemaker since he was just a little boy; always bullying, stealing, beating, and now this murder thing. The person in the article has been in a semi-well family (other than the mean father figure); great life, job, family, etc. the question I have is how could totally differernt things affect people the same way? Like, hhow could something so small and something so big have the same effect? Another thing is why harm others if you know they did nothing to you? For instance, why did Leon really hurt other people when it was his mother to blame for his behavior? On that note I just have to ask myself why do unintelliget people have children when they can't even care for themselves? Maria is undeserving of Leon and even her other son; I sincerely 100% believe that she ruined him and pay for neglecting her innnocent, needing child. Leon's strory completely broke me; I was in tears because he did not ask for the life he got. Same with the article. That person didn't ask for an abusive father-figure in thier life. The world is just not fair.
ReplyDeleteMaria is slightly mentally disabled though, she cannot comprehend her actions and no has explained to her or been a role model. She is not a terrible person just naive and in need of assistance. I personally think she should have gotten a babysitter because it bothers me to think a newborn was left alone all day. But since her brain wasn't fully developed she never meant to bring pain to her child, it doesn't make it okay but she has some excuse. But I do agree with you for the most part, many people shouldn't have children if they can't handle the responsibility.
DeleteTaylor Nein
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter and the article very interesting to read. I learned a lot of what kind of things can happen to someone as a child and cause them to group to be a sociopath. One interesting thing from the article was how it said 1-25 people are a sociopath. That's scary to think about. I also found it interesting how sociopaths don't have emotions and can basically lie with out giving any indication that they are lying. One thing I don't get though is if 1-25 people are sociopaths does that mean they were all raised kind of like Leon, in how they were abandon as a child in a way? If not than can being a sociopath be based on genetics and not entirely by the way you where born?
I think that was a good point to make on how maybe its not entirely on how you were brought up, genetics could possibly have a big roll in it as well. Maybe you cant stop the inevitable. I also found it very interesting as well that 1-25 people are sociopaths. That possibly one of your friends that you think is just going through a stage might actually have a severe problem but we don't even realize it. Its scary to think that things like this are all around us.
DeleteThis chapter raises some disturbing questions. What makes a person capable or murder? If 1/25 of us are sociopaths are we all capable of such horrors? How aware are sociopaths of themselves? How could Leon be so unemotional? Was his behavior caused by only by how much attention he got as a child? Are sociopaths born or shaped? I also cant believe that the mother could just leave him all alone by himself with no one to look after him. If she couldn't care for him why didn't she reach out to someone who could. I am also wondering about the different levels of being a sociopath. I feel that almost everybody has some sociopathic tendencies and mannerisms. But are all sociopaths that bad where they kill? Are some just extremely narcissistic. Where the women in the article less violent that Leon based on their gender? women are commonly less violent than men? Or is this a different level? My last regard is that if other people noticed Leon was troubled why didn't they reach out and help? Why did no one step in when there were signs of neglect
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if sociopaths are born or shaped. Personally, I think it can be both, for example, had Leon received the same care his brother Frank had, I strongly believe his future would have been different. He developed a lack of sympathy and remorse, simply because he was never given any from the start.
DeleteI agree with both of you in a sense because Leon did not how to show emotions properly and that cause him to have no remorse to his victims. I like Courtney question about "if a sociopaths or born that way or it develop over time" I personally think that it develops over time. It all goes back to the other chapters and how if something traumatizing happened to them as children it affects there future or even in the case of Leon how his mother did not show him love in the right way maybe it would have never lead to him doing what he did.
DeleteThis chapter was the hardest for me to read. It's scary to think that these are all true stories. I truly don't know how someone could do that to such innocent girls. In the beginning I was the most angry at Leon. It sent shivers down my spine to read how he showed no remorse whatsoever for doing this heinous crime. But, as I read on I started to feel a little bad for Leon. I struggled with feeling bad for a person who had done such a horrible crime but it's not like he could help the unintentional neglect that he experienced as a baby. He learned as a baby that if he were to cry, nobody would come so he just stopped showing emotions all together. I found myself very frustrated with the mother and her cluelessness as to what she was doing to her baby. I wondered if Leon were raised as Frank was, would he never have done this? Because maybe Leon still would've been a sociopath, but maybe he wouldn't be capable of such a crime. The article showed me that you can be a sociopath, without being a killer as well.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on how I started to feel sympathy to Leon because in the end most of it went back to him being left alone as a child and not having someone show emotion towards him, so as he grew he did not show emotions because that was how he was raised.
DeleteThis was also the hardest chapter for me to read and it shocked me how a person could commit these actions. I also was very surprised when I started feeling sympathetic at the end of this chapter.
DeleteI also started to get some sympathy for Leon as I found out more about his past and the neglect he received as a baby and probably for a good portion of his childhood.. No wonder he turned out the way he did! He received no love or interaction from humans so it only makes sense he would turn out to be a cold hearted killer.
DeleteThis chapter was very interesting and intriguing to me. Leon's story began a mystery. He was brought up by good parents who worked hard to provide for their family. Although, as a new born baby he did no receive the attention that he needed. I was surprised by the fact that because he was left alone as a baby, his life was forever misguided and troubled. It is so crucial that young children, and even infants, get an immense amount of attention from loved ones. Most of us think Leon's actions have no explanation. In reality though, it all leads back to the way he was brought up. His mother did not show him enough affection as a baby, which left him emotionless and detached from those around him. It shocked me how little he cared and how he felt no remorse for any of his horrible actions. From this chapter i learned the importance of love and affection right from the start.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter, this article, and most importantly, the general topic of sociopathic tendencies and people really stood out to me as I read. I have always considered myself empathetic, or at least able to react to others emotions. This has always come naturally, but upon reading the chapter and article, I had never put any thought into how I developed those characteristics, I just assumed it came naturally, not how, where and by who I was raised. It was clear Leon's parents loved him; no traumatic event in his life had caused him to become a sociopath, but rather, an unintentional period of time filled with no care, no love, and nobody for Leon to confide in had. When Leon was asked what he would have done differently and he replied "maybe throw away those boots", a prime example of the remorse Leon lacked entirely.
ReplyDeleteMuch like Leon, the woman in the article lacked remorse and emotion too, a trait sociopaths share. What I don't seem to understand is are there different levels of sociopathic tendencies? How could the woman enjoyed succeeding, blending, while Leon was the opposite? And lastly, how could Leon kill so easily and the woman had only enjoyed harming emotionally? Leon had alcohol in his system when he had horrifically murdered the two young, innocent girls, but was alcohol enough to do something like that?
In addition to all of this, it is crazy to think that one person in twenty-five is a sociopath, and after reading the article, I now understand that sociopaths are more common than I had known, but also often not possible to pick out. Overall, this chapter and article really drew some questions, but at the same time, answered so many.
I agree this chapter thoroughly surprised me at certain points not only through leons lack of remorse but also the statistic from the article almost makes you question those around you if not yourself at times.
DeleteThis is definitely a very thought provoking chapter as is the article. Both of these reminded me that you cant always tell what a person is like just by looking at them, and that also not all criminals have some mental problem that makes them the cold and calculating person like in chapter 5. I believe that more now then ever that the brain should be looked at way more in depth, there is no way that alcohol alone could cause there ferocity and viciousness of leons attack on those two young girls.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThis chapter is about a sixteen year old boy named Leon who brutally kills and rapes two young girls. After he killed and raped the girls, he kicked and stomped on the bodies. He shows no signs of remorse for the incident. After Dr. Perry’s interview with Leon, he met with his family and received additional information about Leon’s past. Dr. Perry found out when Leon was a baby his mother would leave him for a whole day alone in a dark apartment. Leon’s mother did not know any better to leave an infant alone all day because she did not know not to. This caused Leon not to have feelings, emotions or relationships with others. Dr. Perry explores into the basis of sociopaths. He also explores how even unintentional early life neglect formed by our developmentally-insensitive education, mental health and juvenile justice systems copy and show the pathological processes that can create monsters.
Remorse as well as emotions in general I feel like need to be learned for a parent. If the child does not see emotions toward themselves, they are never going to learn to show them towards other and how to deal with them. In Leon case he never knew what emotions were because he was never shown them by his parents and in the article thats the same way they were never shown how to properly express emotions.
This chapter was very disturbing to me when i started reading it and i found it very intriguing to read as well. ITs aweful to think that because of a mother who didnt make time to nurture and care for her baby when they needed it most, that the child would eventually grow up to do horrendous things to others in the world. The fact that his parents didnt know what had gone wrong with their child shows that more adults planning to have kids need to be informed and aware of the consequences that may take place if their infant is not cared for the correct way. Leon didn't choose this path of life for himself its just how his brain was developed at that young age and the parts of his brain in which were not fully developed because of the choices his parents made when he was little. Its sad to think that his whole family is this "picture perfect" family and then Leon got the shorter end of the stick and went on to do things that no parent would hope there kid would ever do. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking that a mom would actually leave her child in the dark at home? Just laying there crying until he got over it just so she could go on with her normal routine. This doesn't completely relate to my life but i have noticed being with some friends and their friends that some people do show symptoms of not being really loved as a young child, definitely not at the extreme of Leon but at a more subtle level. Like you can tell who was loved greatly by their parents and you can tell who maybe wasn't loved as much as they should have been which is very sad to think. Leon may never realize o know how to get what you want the right way or actually having someone wanna give you love back for real and that is very unfortunate to think that just because his mom made one poor decision continuously for a part of his life he now has to suffer the consequences.
ReplyDeleteWhat I gained most from this chapter was the full extent of lack of empathy. I admittedly have read already quite a bit into the subject to sociopaths as well as serial killers and even a little on autism and how it relates. I plan on buying the book the article was taken from, it looks like a fantastic read. Nothing quite disturbs me but I didn't realise the close relation of the lack of empathy serial killers feel vs the lack of social connection people with autism feel and i found it quite interesting. What I learned from the article though was most intriguing. I had no idea that a sociopath could feel any sort of affection for others. She says she has close family and friends that love her and she loves very much, I didn't know sociopaths were capable of such feelings and how different they are from a psychopath. The relation from the outside world and this chapter I found was that I have a close friend with severe Asperger syndrome. I never understood why he couldn't comprehend why I ever felt sad or distressed. He also didn't understand loneliness but he is a incredibly talented musician. The connection with the article was a book written by Chuck Klosterman, called "The Visible Man", about an incredibly manipulative man convincing a therapist that he was invisible and all around her at all times.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was very disturbing. I can not understand how someone can completely shut down their emotions like Leon did. I got chills when he was asked what he would do differently and he responded" I would have hid my boots". It amazes me how little things at an early stage can effect how someone can turn out in the future. something as simple as letting a baby cry ad not give it attention can lead to a stone cold adult is incredible. I do not however blame the parents. the father working hard to support his family and a mother who in her mind was doing everything she was capable of doing to help the kids. It was an unfortunate cause where things didn't line up, and went corrected properly as they worsened. Not every child who is not nurtured in the right way will become a killer. But in the case of Leon the neglect he received turned him into something almost un human,
ReplyDeleteThis chapter gave me chills. I was shocked that someone could have so little remorse and be so cruel. Throughout this chapter I asked myself many questions because I was just so dumbfounded by his actions. How could someone possibly think that is acceptable? How could someone not feel any remorse after committing such a horrible crime? What did this boy go through in life to make him like this? As I continued to read, I was very interested in the fact that the smallest things that happen to an infant can have such a major impact on the same person all throughout life. It makes me sad to think people are actually like this and don't feel love. I also question what kind of steps should be taken in order to help this person. When I read the part where he talks about hiding his boots, it made me very upset and mad to think that is the only thing he regrets.
ReplyDeleteWithin the first paragraph of this chapter my mouth literally dropped as I read the first sentence about Leon. I feel as if I am a decently compassionate person towards other people so the beginning of meeting Leon was really hard for me to read. Leon sits there and is trying to play with Dr. Perry’s emotions and I just think of that situation and I feel as if I would let in. As the strong opinioned and outspoken person I am, I am not sure I could hold back the sadness or disgust or all the other mixed thoughts and feelings I was having. As I read about Frank turning in Leon I was shocked. Would I turn my brother into the police for a crime like that? Is it sad to say I had to honestly ask myself this question and didn’t know the answer to it right away? While I continued to read I really found myself doing what I have done every chapter, realizing that there is a reason for such behavior. This makes me question, do I always judge people off the first impression? Should I find more time to get to know them, their story, and what makes them the way we are? Also, how crazy is it that little things (or large things like Leon’s way of being raised) can change everything about the person you are going to become?
ReplyDeleteSide notes the second paragraph talks about how loss can change someone. This so real, knowing from a firsthand experience with the loss of my brother, even at a young age, I noticed people change around me. I also can still tie some of my own social issues along with the loss at a young age.
I found this chapter to be really interesting but super frustrating. I consider myself a fairly compassionate person and caring towards others, especial younger children and babies. It amazes me that as a mother she abandoned Leon like that and just left him alone all day. I honestly think you'd have to be a terrible person to do that to your own child. Although she "didn't know better" I still can't even comprehend ever doing that to my own child. It just amazed me that she thought that was okay. I think the parents are to blame a lot for how Leon acted and behaved. Another thing that I found interesting during this chapter was how it can affect a person who already has behavoir and emotional problems that when put into a facility like juvenile detention that it an actual make a person like Leon worse and not better because they are surrounded by people with similar problems.
ReplyDeleteThis chapter was the most interesting to me because I have always wondered what makes a person sociopathic. What it takes to push them to think this way. What in their brain is different from telling them right from wrong?
ReplyDeleteMy question is what made Leon sociopathic? What pushed him to think this way? He wasn't physically abused. He was however left at home all day by himself. Could this do it? I also found it interesting that while he was in juvenile detention he became worse. I wonder if it would be better to get him help rather then being put in juvenile detention would he be different would he want the help?
I learned that 1 in 25 people will become a sociopath. I feel that someone is more likely to become sociopathic if they werent raised correctly. But could someone be born a sociopath?
From the first few lines of this chapter, I was hooked. I couldn’t stop reading,and I teared up when learning what Leon did to those two girls. They were so young, younger than me. Even Leon was younger than me when he committed this crime. It made me feel so awful, all of these kids way too young to have their lives ruined. The girls, innocent and full of hope, and Leon, who although already troubled, now will be in prison for the rest of his life, squashing any chances of having a normal life. One thing I wanted to point out was how the author talks about staying calm in front of Leon. I know I would have trouble not showing my emotions while listening to the emotionless kid speak of the horrible crimes he committed. I was grimacing just reading it. When I read about Leon talking about his boots and how he should have gotten rid of them, my stomach turned. He obviously did not regret his actions at all. His only regret was being caught. I found it bittersweet that the brother turned Leon in to the police. He obviously cares for his brother, but also wanted to do the right thing, something Leon would never strive to do.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought when learning that the mother was impaired was “did she mess something up and unintentionally hurt Leon when he was young?” Unfortunately, I was correct. Suddenly my entire sentiment of this story changed. Although I don’t think it excuses his actions, it added a whole new layer of complicatedness to everything.
Throughout the chapter, Leon makes so many comments that made my heart sink. His comment about his family crying really stuck out to me. It makes you realize that he really just does not understand empathy at all. It must be terrible to live a life devoid of feelings, and he isn’t even aware of what he’s missing.
This chapter was really fascinating and surprising at the same time. I knew what a sociopath was but I never really understood the seriousness of it and how they truly don't have feelings. It's so crazy to think how someone could commit such a bad crime and not even feel sorry for a second. It's so weird to think that someone could turn out like that just by the environment they were raised in and how they were treated. I think that really comes into play with this. I don't believe someone is born a sociopath, but maybe it is both and not just one? It's intriguing to figure out how someone becomes a sociopath. I never knew the statistics were that high, 1 in 25 seems like a lot. It's almost scary to think you probably know one and you have no idea who. I thought it was strange how she was so confident and almost proud, are most like that are only some? This chapter left me with a lot of questions.
ReplyDeleteI found this chapter very frustrating but also very interesting. It amazes me that a mother or anyone would ever think that leaving a tiny baby in a dark room alone all day could be a good idea. I just don't understand how someone could make that kind of mistake. It's interesting to see how something that happened to Leon at such a young age could effect him so much now. I think it is completely his mothers fault for him growing up to be a sociopath. It is very sad to think that he will never feel compassion or any kind of emotion for anything all because of his mothers mistake she repeatedly did. I hope that no future parents ever do this and take away their child's chance at having a normal life.
ReplyDelete